Simple minded question

topic posted Mon, August 22, 2005 - 11:01 PM by  Kanch
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What's the simplest thing? In the context of complexity theory does it even exist or it is an arbitrary point of perception?

What does "simple" mean anyway!? As I ask this the word itself suddenly seems very complicated!

Peace,

Paul Bard.
posted by:
Kanch
Australia
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  • Re: Simple minded question

    Mon, August 22, 2005 - 11:15 PM
    If simplest = lowest internal variability, I'm gonna go with a vacuum.
    • Re: Simple minded question

      Wed, August 24, 2005 - 6:31 PM
      You would be wrong, a vacuum actually has quite a high level of variability due to something called "quantum foam". Do a Google on that or the Casimir Effect for details. My answer would be a black hole, which according to the latest theories is a Bose Einstein Condensate (an object whose components all share a single quantum state ie no variability allowed).

      Tim
      • Re: Simple minded question

        Thu, August 25, 2005 - 8:21 PM
        The same argument that you use to make the point that a vaccum is not simple also holds for black holes. I will disagree with the statement that hairless black holes are simple, based on the fact that they retain their charge and mass. Consequently, subject to an electric field, black holes are subject to oscillation and pair-creation/annihilation.

        I might agree with a counterpoint, tho, that cosmic censorship, (world lines having no future beyond the event horizon) is simple.

        Jon
  • Re: Simple minded question

    Tue, October 18, 2005 - 3:35 PM
    I would define simple as having the fewest parts with the fewest interrelationships. I don't think that the attributes of that thing should be part of the definition. Theoretically the simplest thing might have a nearly infinite number of attributes. For this reason I would not disqualify "vaccum" based on the attributes attributed to "quantum foam". However, I think vaccum does not qualify as a "thing". It seems there should be at least one part and vaccum implies nothing. So the simplest thing would be one fundamental indivisible unit of matter/energy- the original atom concept. In modern science it might be a quark, a 1/3 quark, or the fundamental string of string theory, or maybe there is no such thing.
  • Re: Simple minded question

    Tue, October 18, 2005 - 10:10 PM
    Perhaps you were right Paul,
    as all these excellent insights
    outline.
    Complexity in simplicity.

    Now, is there similarly simplicity
    within complexity, or is this just
    a sign of our propensity of ordering things ?

    Arbitrary is in itself an interesting concept.

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